In a comment below my post General gripe thread – about the 9/11 Truth movement, “representativepress” (identified as Tom on his blog) wrote:
My gripe is how the facts which disprove their case don’t get a fair hearing. I have been banned from forums just for stating basic facts.
I would suggest reading a forum’s rules before you post there. You evidently did not read my comment policy, for example, because you posted video links here.
9/11 Truth movement forums vary in their policies. The rules of the Loose Change forum, for example, allow posts by opponents only in a designated Skeptics area, and forbid re-hashing certain specific common arguments by “debunkers.” Your own argument, discussed below, happens not to be one of the forbidden ones, but you might be banned for posting it in the wrong sub-forum, especially if you did so repeatedly.
I too have rules about where to post certain kinds of things. Again, see my comment policy, including Note A, below the numbered list of rules.
Anyhow, you also wrote:
Diane, I think the following info will answer your questions about 9/11:
Please check out my page WTC Pre-Collapse Bowing Debunks 9/11 “Controlled Demolition” Theory.
Actually, this doesn’t tell me anything about 9/11 that I didn’t know already. I was already well aware of the published observations of column-bowing.
What this debunks, specifically, is the alleged “sudden onset of collapse” and “foreknowledge of collapse” as alleged evidence for controlled demolition of the Twin Towers.
However, it doesn’t rule out the possibility that something else (though perhaps not a full-fledged “controlled demolition” with explosives) might have been done to WTC 1, 2, and 7 besides just hitting WTC 1 and 2 with jet planes. Right now I’m taking a wait-and-see attitude toward Steven Jones’s research. (Yes, I’m aware that Steven Jones has ventured outside his field of expertise and made some serious blunders, but some key results of his have been confirmed by independent sources. And we’ll see what happens when he has more people with expertise in chemistry and metallurgy to advise him and/or replicate some other results of his. One of the things I’m now doing is to try to help find such people who might be willing to work with him. More about this in a future post.) I’ve also suggested other possible research projects for members of Richard Gage’s organization. It remains to be seen whether any relevant people are interested.
Anyhow, even if nothing was done to the WTC buildings besides hitting two of them with jet planes, there are still plenty of other fishy things that happened on 9/11, and there is plenty of evidence of subsequent coverups.
At the bottom of the linked page, you state your concern:
We have an unacceptable risk to our nation because of specific foreign policies. People who promote these erroneous 9/11 theories undermine efforts to get the focus on stopping these foreign policies. We must take a serious look at the motives for the 9/11 attacks and call for a full review of the specific foreign policies that motivate terrorists to attack us. I see a lot of people are spreading this “controlled demolition” theory, I also notice they don’t talk about ending the foreign policies.
Actually, many advocates of the “controlled demolition” theory do also oppose the same specific foreign policies that you do. Many believe that the motive for U.S. government complicity in the 9/11 attacks was to rally popular support for some of those very same polcies. Many believe that the motive of the perpetrators was to justify a century of “war on terror,” i.e. U.S. military occupation of various Muslim countries. And many people in the 9/11 Truth movement are critical of U.S. support for Israel, too, or at least U.S. support for the rabid Likud faction. You apparently have not spent much time looking at 9/11 Truth movement websites and forums, or talking to people in the 9/11 Truth movement.
In a post on your blog, you say the following:
Don’t let the Bush Administration trick us into another war. President Bush must be impeached in order to prevent him from committing another war crime by attacking Iran. We must end the wars of aggression in the Middle East, NOT expand them into a World War! Ending corrupt political policies is the only way to ensure security.
The vast majority of people in the 9/11 Truth movement would agree with this wholeheartedly. Try posting just the above three sentences in a few 9/11 Truth forums and see what kind of a reaction you get. (Just make sure you follow the forum rules about where to post it, etc.)
Try posting, also, about the real reasons why the U.S.A. is hated in much of the Muslim world (while refraining from discussing your views on 9/11 itself). You won’t get much disagreement, if any, except that some might disagree about the relative importance of the various reasons.
We all can agree that the “they hate our freedoms” excuse was ridiculous.
On a side panel on the right hand side of the web page he linked to here on my blog, you further allege:
These “9/11 was an inside job” websites look like they are well financed and they are duping many people into not questioning policies like U.S. support of Israel. Some people may indeed be deliberately misleading Americans so we won’t look at the real motives for the 9/11 attacks.
“Well financed???” Which specific websites are you talking about?
Further down on on that sidebar, you refer to the 9/11 Truth movement as the “conspiracy people” while continuing to promote your own “conspiracy theory” about the 9/11 Truth movement itself:
We have the mainstream media avoiding dealing with the prime motive for the 9/11 attack and we have these conspiracy people also not talking about the prime motive for the 9/11 attack.
And we now have a “debunker” asking for money:
We need to raise funds so we can raise our voices so all Americans can learn the truth: We were not attacked because of our freedoms and we were not attacked because the U.S. government engineered it. Anyone who plays along with these lies is helping special interests protect specific foreign policies at the expense of the American people.
Again, most people in the 9/11 Truth movement are highly critical of various aspects of U.S. foreign policy, including most if not all of the same aspects that you are.
By the way, speaking of “protecting specific foreign policies at the expense of the American people,” what do you think of Sibel Edmonds’s (and other similar whistleblowers’) allegations about the FBI?
On another subject: At the bottom of that page of yours is a link to a post on your blog titled “The Gorilla in the Room is US Support for Israel,” which I won’t link to directly because of the outright hate speech I noticed in some comments there (though not in your own statements).
Tom, I hope you can distinguish between (1) justified criticisms of Israeli government policies and (2) blanket bigotry against Jews in general. Some of your commenters, on both sides of the debate about Israel, evidently cannot. Please point out to them that crucial distinction. Please take a stand against racism and religion-based bigotry on both sides.
The reason why many Jews believe they “need Israel,” after all, is precisely because of a justified fear of the neo-Nazi-like views voiced by too many opponents of Israel. Please address that fear by taking a stand against those neo-Nazi-like attitudes. Only if the concerns of both sides are addressed can there possibly ever be peace in the Middle East.