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May 13, 2008

UFO’s and ET’s – moving an off-topic comment thread

Filed under: off-topic — Diane @ 1:11 am
Tags: ,

In the comment thread after my post No-planes theories and DEW/”Star wars beam” theories, discussion turned to the topic of UFO’s and ET’s. I’ll copy those comments below, then delete the originals.

The beginning of the UFO/ET discussion:

The ET discussion was sparked by Patrick S. McNally’s reply to this earlier comment, in which realitydesign wrote, as an argument for the advantages of videos over written communication:

You get to see the person’s behavior as they speak and look at them which allows your intuition to kick in as a tool to help decipher the nature of the information or the credibility of the person- on a gut level.

To which Pagrick S. McNally replied:

My gut level response to anyone who starts off about UFOs is that they sound like a hoaxer. Maybe that gut level intuition is wrong, but this is precisely why one attaches some significance to cross-references.

(referring back to my earlier pointing out of the ability to cross-reference as an advantage of print media).

Below are complete copies of all the subsequent comments, which I’ll delete from their original position.

Comment by realitydesign — May 10, 2008 @ 5:39 am:

“My gut level response to anyone who starts off about UFOs is that they sound like a hoaxer. Maybe that gut level intuition is wrong, but this is precisely why one attaches some significance to cross-references.”

I see.

Do you think that all mention of UFOs from astronauts to pilots to military to CIA to civilians across the globe over 60+ years are hoax based?

Comment by patricksmcnally — May 10, 2008 @ 6:13 pm:

I’m not certain that there is any one sinlge explanation for all reports of UFOs in the last century. Literally, UFO just means “unidentified flying object” and such could be a bird in some cases. I do think that the development of military technology after 1945 saw a rise in the number of reported incidents of unidentified flying objects, and I doubt that such is an accident. Some proportion of the incidents in this time-frame almost certainly are the result of secret military technology being tested on the sly. But the exact percentage of such cases is impossible to determine. Even so, nothing about the reports of such UFOs within the last 6 decades or so has really compellingly supported the ET thesis. More likely we have a mixture of bird-sightings and military tests combined in some proportion which can’t be determined.

Comment by realitydesign — May 10, 2008 @ 6:38 pm:

“Even so, nothing about the reports of such UFOs within the last 6 decades or so has really compellingly supported the ET thesis.”

I don’t know how you could conclude something like this- totally false. There are now hundreds of military and high level government people worldwide who have gone on record saying ETs are real and they are/have been here. Even Astronauts have gone on record saying this. Then you get into eye witness testimony from hundreds of countries, mass sightings, abductions which have been seriously studied by highly respected Dr.s from around the world.

The phenomenon is real, as real as galileos finding about heliocentrism which was suppressed for 200 years.

P.S. sorry Diane, I imagine this isn’t the place for UFO stuff so I’m done.

Patick you might want to start with the disclosure project- Dr. Steven Greer has collected over 400 professionals testimony about ufos many of them military.

Comment by patricksmcnally — May 10, 2008 @ 8:08 pm:

> There are now hundreds of military and high level government people worldwide who have gone on record saying ETs are real and they are/have been here.

That’s one of the features which makes it smell like disinformation. John Lear was with the CIA for 17 years:

LINK

Since at least 2003 Lear has been circulating the story that “we have not been going back to the moon because we were told to stay away. That’s why Nasa abruptly canceled the program.” Coming from a “former” CIA man, this story stinks of sensationalized disinfo.

Comment by realitydesign — May 11, 2008 @ 11:26 am:

“Coming from a “former” CIA man, this story stinks of sensationalized disinfo.”

But the VAST majority of sightings and info come from regular folks. So these high level people are just corroborating. There are many genuine whistleblowers coming from high levels as well- they are not all disinfo that’s ridiculous. John was a UFO researcher back in the 1980’s and has done a lot and worked with many people- he is very well respected and if anything- colors up things when telling stories, but his basic premises, which are shared by many others in the field are solid if you ask me.

Comment by patricksmcnally — May 11, 2008 @ 6:15 pm:

The vast majority of sightings and info which come from regular folks are compatible with the likelihood of secret military technology experimentation, carried out by earthlings without any need for assuming the presence of ETs. The ET yarn reads like a deflection exercise meant to protect domestic military secrets.

Comment by realitydesign — May 12, 2008 @ 8:56 am:

“The vast majority of sightings and info which come from regular folks are compatible with the likelihood of secret military technology experimentation, carried out by earthlings without any need for assuming the presence of ETs. The ET yarn reads like a deflection exercise meant to protect domestic military secrets.”

That response was feasible 50 years ago- but is profoundly insufficient today- in light of all the people who have come forward since then with repsect to all the different aspects of the UFO/ET field.

My view:

The topic of UFO’s and ET’s is not one I’ve studied in-depth, so I don’t have a strong opinion. Offhand, I’m not inclined to believe that UFO’s are alien spacecraft. I believe that one should look for other possible explanations before concluding that they definitely are alien spacecraft.

One thing I do consider extremely unlikely is some folks’ belief in some sort of longstanding secret deal between ET’s and human elites, complete with interbreeding, a la David Icke.

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10 Comments »

  1. “One thing I do consider extremely unlikely is some folks’ belief in some sort of longstanding secret deal between ET’s and human elites”

    This idea is supported by many corroborating reports- this is absolutely not something David Icke came up with. It all began in the 1940’s- when we made the nukes. There are so many people who have come forward it’s now just about facing the truth. Humanity will look back soon and realize it was like facing that the earth wasn’t flat after all. Sergeant Clifford Stone has stated and others have corroborated that there are at least 50 species of ETs cataloged- interacting with or who have at one time interacted with us. Mostly though- it is the greys that we here about in the thousands of abduction reports worldwide and studied extensively by the late revered psychiatrist Dr. John Mack of Harvard. It was also the Greys who carried out/carry out the cattle mutilations for which have despite being investigated by the FBI, have never been explained- beginning in the 1970’s and up until even now claiming over 10,000 cattle in the US alone. The FBI report on this alone is worth the read- precision surgical removal of sexual organs- no traces left as to any human activity. But as far as other ET species, there are those that look very similar to us and who walk among us undetected- and absolutely work with the shadow government. Area 51, Groom lake- it’s all real.

    Gary Mckinnon the British guy who penetrated the Pentagon and Nasa computer systems in 2000 and is still due to be extradited to the USA (major international story covered by all papers) talks regularly about what he found and this includes tons of files referring to ET people working alongside shadow government groups, photos of ships etc.

    Astronaut Gordon Cooper and many others have blown the whistle on Nasa’s total and routine cover up of UFO content.

    We have been kept in the dark for so long but now the time has come- disclosure is already underway (it’s not going to happen at once), countries like mexico are being overwhelmed with sightings and flybys and the us media of course won’t touch anything related to ET as always- the military strategy has been to deny and ridicule from the top down, from day one- all under the guise of national security. So in the usa you have this (suprise, suprise) nuerotic fear of coming forward with UFO claims as you are made out to be a loon and will be ridiculed by your peers and society.

    http://www.disclosureproject.org

    Comment by realitydesign — May 13, 2008 @ 9:43 pm | Reply

  2. http://www.ufoevidence.org/news/newstext.asp?id=363

    Here is a transcript from a very recent national press club press event where military and other pilots from around the world report on their undeniable ufo experiences. Their testimony disproves the idea of black projects or that the craft are manmade in any way.

    This event was in 2007 and did get a small media response even though it should have been front page everywhere.

    ***more recently in the states you have the massive sightings in stephensville texas.

    Comment by realitydesign — May 14, 2008 @ 12:54 pm | Reply

  3. About the link you provided:

    The page starts off with a vague reference to “ndividual witness testimony distributed to those who attended the Briefing at the National Press Club on Monday” with no further details about what this “Briefing” was or who organized it. Can you provide more specific details?

    You say it got a small amount of mass media coverage. Can you provide links to some of that mass media coverage?

    Comment by Diane — June 14, 2008 @ 2:27 pm | Reply

  4. Here is the original press release- I remember a bunch of news stories on it, Larry King had a few of the guests on his show days before…CNN did a story, I don’t have time to dig them all up. What does it matter? You have the full transcript above no?

    PRESS RELEASE…

    WHEN: Monday, November 12, 2007
    11:00 AM
    WHERE: National Press Club
    Ballroom

    Event open to credentialed media and Congressional staff only

    NEWS ADVISORY

    For immediate release: For further information
    Thursday, Nov. 1, 2007 Contact: Leslie Kean 415 250 9791

    UFO Close Encounters

    The Reality as Seen by Former High Level Government and Military Officials

    Pilots to Tell Their UFO Stories for the First Time

    Group to call on US Government to Re-Open its Investigation
    The American public is not alone when it comes to sighting what the US Air Force has labeled Unidentified
    Flying Objects (UFOs). So too have former governors, high level military and government officials, highly
    trained airplane pilots and aviation experts.

    The phenomenon is real. It happens worldwide. No one is sure about its nature. Experts from seven countries will divulge what they have discovered about UFOs at a November 12
    panel discussion moderated by former Arizona Governor Fife Symington (R) at the National Press Club.

    Just one year ago, pilots, mechanics and managers from United Airlines witnessed a metallic disc-shaped object
    hovering over the United Airlines Terminal at Chicago’s O’Hare Airport. The clearly observed object shot
    straight up leaving a hole through the clouds. Despite the clear aviation safety issues involved, the Federal
    Aviation Administration (FAA) never investigated the incident and dismissed it as weather. This head-in-the clouds
    refusal to investigate stands in sharp contrast to efforts by governments of other countries to understand
    these incidents.

    “I believe that our government should take an active role in investigating this very real phenomenon,” said
    Symington, who was a witness to the famed ‘Phoenix Lights” incident seen by hundreds in Arizona while he was
    governor. “This panel consists of some of the most qualified people in the world with direct experience in dealing
    with this issue, and they will bring incredible, irrefutable evidence, some never presented before, that we simply
    cannot dismiss or ignore,” he said.

    The group, using previously classified documents, will discuss many well-documented cases, including two
    investigated by the US government. The first involves a Peruvian Air Force pilot who fired many rounds at a
    UFO which was not affected. The second was an Iranian Air Force pilot’s attempt to fire at a UFO, but whose
    control panel became inoperable. “This case is a classic that meets all the necessary conditions for a legitimate
    study of the UFO phenomenon,” stated the US Defense Intelligence Agency document on the Tehran incident.

    Both pilots will come forward to speak about these events publicly for the first time.

    2

    WHO:

    Fife Symington, Former Arizona Governor, Moderator

    Ray Bowyer, Captain, Aurigny Air Services, Channel Islands

    Rodrigo Bravo, Captain and Pilot for the Aviation Army of Chile

    General Wilfried De Brouwer, former Deputy Chief of Staff, Belgian Air Force (Ret.)

    John Callahan, Chief of Accidents and Investigations for the FAA, 1980’s (Ret.)

    Dr. Anthony Choy, founder, 2001, OIFAA, Peruvian Air Force

    Jean-Claude Duboc, Captain, Air France (Ret.)

    Charles I. Halt, Col. USAF (Ret.), Former Director, Inspections Directorate, DOD I.G.

    General Parviz Jafari, Iranian Air Force (Ret.)

    Jim Penniston, TSgt USAF (Ret.)

    Dr. Claude Poher, Centre National d’Etudes Spatiales, founder, French GEPAN

    Nick Pope, Ministry of Defence, UK, 1985-2006

    Dr. Jean-Claude Ribes, Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique, France, 1963-98

    Comandante Oscar Santa Maria, Peruvian Air Force (Ret.)

    WHAT:

    Former Arizona Governor Fife Symington will moderate a distinguished panel of former
    high-ranking government, aviation, and military officials from seven countries to discuss
    close encounters with what the US Air Force describes as Unidentified Flying Objects
    (UFOs).

    Representatives from France, England, Belgium, Chile, Peru, Iran and the US
    will call for the US Government to join in an international dialogue and re-open its
    investigation – which the Air Force shut down over 30 years ago – in cooperation with
    other governments currently dealing with this unusual and controversial phenomenon.

    While on active duty, the panelists have either witnessed a UFO incident or have
    conducted an official investigation into UFO cases relevant to aviation safety and
    national security.
    Original press release:
    http://www.outofthebluethemovie.com/images/NPC_release.pdf

    WHEN: Monday, November 12, 2007
    11:00 AM
    WHERE: National Press Club
    Ballroom

    Event open to credentialed media and Congressional staff only

    CONTACT: James Fox, documentary filmmaker; director of the acclaimed film “Out of the Blue”
    jamescfox@gmail.com 415 519 9631

    Leslie Kean, investigative journalist with the Coalition for Freedom of Information
    lkean@ix.netcom.com 415 250 9791

    Comment by realitydesign — June 14, 2008 @ 5:19 pm | Reply

  5. realitydesign wrote:

    Here is the original press release

    Thanks.

    – I remember a bunch of news stories on it, Larry King had a few of the guests on his show days before…CNN did a story, I don’t have time to dig them all up.

    Can you dig up just a few (not necessarily all) relevant online print articles on mass media sites?

    What does it matter?

    To establish for multiple independent sources that this is for rea..

    You have the full transcript above no?

    Thanks, but, with controversial claims, it’s good to have corroboration from multiple independent sources, preferably including both mass media sources and scholarly sources if they exist.

    Comment by Diane — June 14, 2008 @ 5:35 pm | Reply

  6. You mean, you need corroboration that it happened? Because it’s all video archived on youtube but I know you don’t have video capability- but if you can watch it all on youtube.

    Better yet would be to watch the disclosure project’s 2001 press club conference, you could download the whole video from their site.

    🙂

    Comment by realitydesign — June 14, 2008 @ 5:54 pm | Reply

  7. Here are some links covering the event:

    http://www.freedomofinfo.org/national_press.htm

    http://blog.wired.com/defense/2007/11/sadly-i-didnt-m.html

    This CNN story (buried in the technology section…lol) is about the guy who moderated the event and they ran the story days before it…

    http://edition.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/11/09/simington.ufocommentary/

    Comment by realitydesign — June 14, 2008 @ 7:16 pm | Reply

  8. Here is a nice (now) declassified document for you…when it all began…

    LINK (GIF file)

    [Comment by realitydesign, edited by blog author Diane to HTML-ize and prettify link.]

    Comment by realitydesign — June 14, 2008 @ 7:41 pm | Reply

  9. Diane the UK is experiencing a big UFO wave right now. Tons of mainstream press:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/2160814/Police-chase-UFO-over-Cardiff.html

    Comment by realitydesign — July 2, 2008 @ 7:57 am | Reply

  10. In my opinion the ETs are ramping up disclosure efforts as governments have failed to do so in a timely fashion.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/2226748/UFOs-spotted-by-Navy-engineer-above-the-M5-motorway.html

    Comment by realitydesign — July 2, 2008 @ 8:05 am | Reply


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