UFO’s and ET’s - moving an off-topic comment thread

In the comment thread after my post No-planes theories and DEW/”Star wars beam” theories, discussion turned to the topic of UFO’s and ET’s. I’ll copy those comments below, then delete the originals.

To 9/11 Truth activists in NYC, from “metamars”

On a private message board, I’ve been asked by “metamars” (an online 9/11 Truth activist) to call the attention of some folks in NYC to metamars’s ressponse to a post by Jon Gold on 911blogger, in which Jon Gold asked for suggestions on how to make the 911 ballot initiative happen.

To psikeyhackr: Belated replies to comments of yours

To psikeyhackr:

I just now replied, belatedly, to the following comments of yours:

• Two comments of yours starting here beneath my post 9/11 Truth movement goals and strategy?
• Two comments of yours starting here beneath my post My current views on 9/11 - brief summary

No-planes theories and DEW/”Star wars beam” theories

In the comment thread following my post “Star Wars beam” / DEW theories, I see that the discussion has turned toward no-planes theories. That’s another topic I like to confine to threads dealing with just that topic. I suppose we now need a thread in which both DEW and no-planes theories can be discussed. So, I’ll copy those comments below and delete them from their original thread.

realitydesign’s “bigger picture”

In a comment here, realitydesign wrote:

I think the bigger picture here is that the idea that countries are operating in their own best interest is an obsolete notion for those in the elite circles that call the shots about what is really going on worldwide. Therefore, from the nationalist(citizen) perspective- it seems like there are all these bizarre alliances and innappropriate relationships going on but that’s because we are living decades behind these networks in terms of our ‘political’ thinking/understanding. They have toally different agendas and they are being executed.

It’s tricky though because the high rollers use tools from different sheds and that sends people like us chasing our tales. For example, I believe the CIA and Mossad was involved in 911 (among others ISI, probably M16). But does that mean it was an Israeli/American thing? No, the tools that were used fit the job- that’s all.

9/11 - The Saudi connection?

The two aspects of 9/11 I now think are most worth looking into further are:

1. Statements by whistleblowers such as Sibel Edmonds. (See various links in my April 21 post U.S. government foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks.)
2. The relationship between the U.S. government and Saudi Arabia.

“Star Wars beam” / DEW theories

In the comments beneath my post 9/11 Truth movement goals and strategy?, a thread has started concerning Judy Wood’s “Star Wars beam” / DEW theories. I’ve decided to move that topic to a separate thread, to which it will be confined from henceforth. Below, I will copy the relevant comments. I’ll then delete the originals.

Israel/Palestine (to Patrick S. McNally)

To Patrick S. McNally:

I’m now trying to learn about the Israel/Palestine conflict. I don’t yet have a definite opinion about it, except that I mistrust the propaganda of both sides, and I’m wary of both sides’ tendency to dismiss the concerns of the other side.

Since you’ve studied this subject more than I have, I figure you might be a good person to give me a reality check on some Zionist talking points. (I would also appreciate comments from anyone else knowledgeable who happens to be reading this.)

9/11 Truth movement goals and strategy?

In a comment here, in reply to my post U.S. government foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks, realitydesign wrote:

Many of the these warnings and subsequent lies are so well documented that it demonstrates how powerless/sloth we really are against/within this system. … As far as I’m concerned foreknowledge has been adaquately demonstrated. Paul Thompson and others have already done this work.

It would be a lot more ’shocking’ to prove CD or as the pilots are doing- impossible flight paths with respect to their reported trajectories- things like this would cause more of a reaction imo- to those oceans of people that are still asleep.

U.S. government foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks?

As I’ve said in the past two posts, what I personally find suspicious about 9/11 is not the story of the hijackers, but rather the claim that the attack could not have been prevented.

It seems to me that the FBI and the CIA had no good excuse not to have known about the plot in advance, in detail, given that the plot had been hatched way back in 1995 or so, and given that the FBI and the CIA had indeed been spying on al-Qaeda for lo these many years, except that the FBI sometimes refused, for no good reason, to follow up on obvious leads.

No-hijacker theories (to realitydesign)

In my recent post My current views on 9/11 - brief summary, I wrote:

I’m an activist against religion-based bigotry, but I strongly disagree with the idea that, in order to oppose anti-Muslim bigotry, one must deny that there were any live human hijackers on 9/11. There is not enough evidence for the pure “MIHOP” view (see What is your HOP level? Ten 9/11 paradigms by Nicholas Levis), whereas there is, alas, plenty of evidence that there were indeed live human hijackers on 9/11, although one may legitimately question some of the specifics.

We then got into a discussion about Hani Hanjour’s flying skills or lack thereof. In this comment, I also pointed out that there are some difficulties with the remote-controlled planes idea.

My current views on 9/11 - brief summary

Since July of last year, I’ve spent quite a bit of time studying various arguments and counterarguments about what happened on 9/11. Below is a brief summary of my current thoughts.

U.S. government sponsorship of Islamist terror

A topic I’ve been reading up on lately is the history of U.S. government sponsorship of Islamist terror.

I highly recommend the Cooperative Research site’s pages on The use of Islamist militants by American and Israeli militarists. (See especially the more recent stuff on page 2.) One caveat: Some items here are well-sourced, others aren’t. However, even if one confines one’s attention to the better-sourced items, the picture that emerges is still quite disturbing.

To Jared Israel: comments on your “Emperor’s Clothes” site

To Jared Israel:

Hi! Lately I’ve spent quite a bit of time reading your fascinating website, The Emperor’s New Clothes. I’m learning a lot from it.

Tracking down data on intercepts

Justin A. Martell has called attention to a 911blogger post by Aidan Monaghan, Debunking Popular Mechanics?: PM Book Alleges FAA Source For Statistical Data; FAA Concedes No Such Data Records Exist.

Jared Israel’s website “The Emperor’s New Clothes”

These past couple of days, I’ve spent quite a bit of time looking at a very interesting website called The Emperor’s New Clothes, authored primarily by Jared Israel. In 2001, it was one of the first websites to publish a bunch of articles questioning 9/11.

To Tom: Michael C. Ruppert vs. “COINTELPRO Tool” on Afghanistan

In this comment, Tom, a.k.a. “Representative Press,” called our attention to an attempted debunking of Michael C. Ruppert’s timeline by someone with the moniker “COINTELPRO Tool.”

I don’t have time to respond to every part of this. For now, I’ll focus just on the parts about Afghanistan. I’ll respond regarding other issues later.

Time to get serious about proving “assisted collapse” of WTC buildings

Needed: More scientists and engineers. And more teamwork. And better peer review.

I just now heard about the following, on 911blogger: A Proposal for Proving Controlled Demolition in a Civil Negligence Suit Against the Security Groups Responsible for the WTC.

In my opinion, this is WAY premature. We are NOT yet anywhere near ready to prove any such thing in a court of law, not even in a civil case.

Second reply to Tom a.k.a. “Representative Press”

I’ll now reply to the latest comment from Tom, a.k.a. “Representative Press.” First, I’ll reply to various blog posts linked within his comment. Then I’ll reply to the comment itself.

Reply to Tom a.k.a. “Representative Press”

In a comment below my post General gripe thread - about the 9/11 Truth movement, “representativepress” (identified as Tom on his blog) wrote:

My gripe is how the facts which disprove their case don’t get a fair hearing. I have been banned from forums just for stating basic facts.

I would suggest reading a forum’s rules before you post there. You evidently did not read my comment policy, for example, because you posted video links here.

Air defense failures, war games, etc.

In a comment in reply to my post Hiding the planting of incendiaries, explosives, or whatever? Response to a common a priori objection, “realitydesign” wrote:

“Can you tell me one significant claim that the truth movement gets demonstrably correct?”

Comment by ref1 — February 14, 2008 @ 1:45 pm

One thing that stands out is the 4 verified WAR GAMES on 9/11 facilitating the ensuing documented confusion in terms of (not) responding adequately.

Indeed there certainly were war games (military exercises) on 9/11.

However, there has been some debate about what the war games imply.

No-planes theories (transplanted comment thread)

Below is a copy of a bunch of comments originally posted in reply to my post Pentagon no-757 theories: debunkings from within the 9/11 Truth movement. I’m deleting them there and moving them here because the comments are about WTC no-planes theories.

Please note: Here on this blog, comments on the topic of no-planes theories should be posted only in response to this and other posts in the no-planes theories category, and not underneath any other posts.

Hiding the planting of incendiaries, explosives, or whatever? Response to a common a priori objection

Below is a copy of a long bunch of comments I’ve deleted from the thread below my post He oughta know better: Mark Roberts and the iron spherules.

The copied comments below deal mainly with the question of how thermite, etc., could have been planted in World Trade Center buildings 1, 2, and 7 without being noticed by many witnesses.

General gripe thread - about the 9/11 Truth movement

The comment area below this post will be the proper place, here on this blog, for general gripes about about the 9/11 Truth movement, to avoid having such comments clutter up threads below posts on more specific topics.

Note that there are already other posts dealing with common a priori objections by opponents of the 9/11 Truth movement. Please post your comment there if directly relevant to one of those posts. Otherwise, you may post it here.

General gripe thread - about me, my blog, and my comment policy

The comment area below this post will be the proper place, here on this blog, for general gripes about about me, my blog, and my comment policy, to avoid having such comments clutter up threads below posts on other topics.